tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post8804603957796051421..comments2024-01-23T10:37:14.372-08:00Comments on Surburg's blog: Mark's thoughts: About Steven Hein's "About Preaching Good Works"Surburg's bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07471674105191295804noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-87381222651531665872017-09-06T17:19:50.829-07:002017-09-06T17:19:50.829-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Robert C. Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08570436015497985244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-73533637956956798652017-09-06T16:07:02.772-07:002017-09-06T16:07:02.772-07:00Hein wrote:
Good and God-pleasing works are always...Hein wrote:<br />Good and God-pleasing works are always normed by the Law of God, but they need to be preached and taught at full-strength. This means that whatever outward actions they may demand, they will always include what is demanded in and from your heart. You need to listen to preachers who exhort and admonish all your good outward doing to flow from faith in Christ and love of God and neighbor. Preachers of true godly works will not shy away from reminding you that if your nice outward righteous doing does not flow from such faith and love of God (and your neighbor), they are just what Isaiah compared to filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).<br /><br />What’s that, Virginia? You say you would not feel very uplifted by such preaching? Good! You’re not supposed to be.<br /><br />Proper preaching of good works is never for our encouragement. Rather, it is intended do two things at the same time: inform you about what God-pleasing works really are; and then, where it is that they are lacking in your life. If it does not do the former, it cannot do the latter. The preaching of soft good works does neither. Proper preaching and teaching good works with appropriate admonitions are not designed to reveal your virtue or make you feel good about yourself. They are intended to expose your poverty—what you should do, but don’t. This is a good thing for your spiritual health and, oddly enough, such preaching actually has an important role in doing good works.<br />How? Just be patient Virginia, I’ll get there.<br /><br />Because good preaching of works commands the spirit with the letter of the Law, it always exposes our weak faith and nails us for our impoverished, often self-centered works. While this may make us squirm, it is a good thing. The Spirit of the Lord uses this to expose false works and indict our poverty to make us hungry for the Gospel—to make us hungry for the all-sufficient works and righteousness of Christ. So, is proper preaching and admonishing of good works a setup for the Gospel? Yes!<br /><br />Hein's point about what the law is intended to do in preaching good works is quite clear. It is also patently obvious that exegetically it makes no sense. Hein may not like having that fact exposed, but it will not do to claim the analysis has missed the point he is making. If he thinks he is making a different point, then he needs to present it in a different way. Surburg's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07471674105191295804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-25713800509388585692017-09-06T15:13:34.615-07:002017-09-06T15:13:34.615-07:00Mark said: "Hein's presentation is helpfu...Mark said: "Hein's presentation is helpful because it leaves no doubt that in his view, as the law accuses it does one thing: it reveals our sin. Preaching of the law THEN has one purpose: to reveal sin in the movement from Law to Gospel(emphasis mine)." The assertion in the first sentence about the Law is almost a tautology. The Law accuses (of sin), the Law reveals sin. Yes, this is kind of a one-to-one correlation. The second sentence does not logically follow and it flatly contradicts what I wrote and what you quoted above. Moreover, it implies that Hein is asserting that the Law ONLY Accuses which my whole blog and your quotes of it contradict. Hein: "Good and God-pleasing works are always normed by the Law of God, but they need to be preached and taught at full-strength."(3rd Use) This statement does not negate that the Law (rightly preached and taught) always accuses WHEN it instructs. And therefore, as you quote me: "Proper preaching of good works is never for our encouragement. Rather, it is intended do two things at the same time: inform you about what God-pleasing works really are; and then, where it is that they are lacking in your life." So, if you want to criticize my blog: Go after the central thesis: We are to preach and teach good works to believers. They need this because they may have misunderstandings, voids, or forgetfulness. When we preach and teach good works we are not to omit elements of good works such as the heart centered elements that Luther has rightly taught us in the Catechism are part of all God-pleasings works (faith and love of God, and love of neighbor). Hein thinks that to just and exhort only the outward elements of good works omits very important internal elements that should be taught as part of all good works. And they should be exhorted as central elements - the spirit of the Law. If our preaching and teaching omits them, we are teaching an enemic 3rd Use of the Law and promote "soft" good works doable also by the non-Christian. Such preaching about Good works is necessary not because of baptism and faith, but because of the old sinful flesh. When the spirit and letter of good works are preached and taught, the Law just will also accuse and make us both hungry for the peace we have in the works of Christ and the power we get From the Holy Spirit through the Gospel to do the good works that he has fore-ordained that we should walk in them. This position is neither contradicted nor refuted by noting that the Apostle Paul, Peter, or John do not exhort or admonish every element of what the Law commands about the shape and character of good works in given chapters and verses of their epistles. Thanks so much, however for wading in on what I wrote but do not construe it as a covert way of trying to deny or discourage preaching and teaching good works, a real functioning of the 3rd Use of the Law, or sneaking in some defacto Law ONLY accuses theological stance. It is not where I am, it is not what I have written. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01156326427188480347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-81983003012823092102017-09-06T08:34:33.052-07:002017-09-06T08:34:33.052-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Robert C. Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08570436015497985244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-28687329744234182032017-09-05T13:01:37.194-07:002017-09-05T13:01:37.194-07:00Yes I felt the same way, and that probably explain...Yes I felt the same way, and that probably explains why so many people do not see what is missing.<br /><br />This antinomian/soft antinomian stuff is dangerous in the same way the Purpose Driven Life was dangerous. Not quite as much in what it did say but in what it did NOT say. It's no wonder so many people say there is no problem and defend their favorite preachers with almost a vengeance.terriergalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08801794520433439408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-72168661482909467342017-09-05T08:50:51.150-07:002017-09-05T08:50:51.150-07:00The funny thing about this Hein article (and the t...The funny thing about this Hein article (and the tricky thing about this whole conversation) is that I found myself agreeing with everything you were quoting from it, and didn't see it coming when I got to the part of your article where you began criticizing it, but you're right--there's no consideration of the Third Use. I read the full-length article to be sure, and it's not there either. It seems surgically omitted. So then I went back to statements I agreed with the first time, e.g. "So, is proper preaching and admonishing of good works a setup for the Gospel? Yes!" and I realize that what he means is, "If you're not setting up the Gospel, you're not preaching good works properly." And that's different. That's a problem.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974330522508437147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-67893820635260123742017-09-05T05:57:56.516-07:002017-09-05T05:57:56.516-07:00This is a wonderfully thought out and carefully do...This is a wonderfully thought out and carefully documented explanation of the 3rd use of the law Richard Tinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10621306289473862643noreply@blogger.com