tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post1517358890836004016..comments2024-01-23T10:37:14.372-08:00Comments on Surburg's blog: Mark's thoughts: "Sanctification"? The issues in question and some final thoughtsSurburg's bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07471674105191295804noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-53770803037628422362013-12-15T03:23:57.440-08:002013-12-15T03:23:57.440-08:00Mark,
I'm a latecoming commenter on this post...Mark,<br /><br />I'm a latecoming commenter on this post, but I thought I'd relate one of the most significant experiences in my seminary career (CSL 2002-2006).<br /><br />It was my fourth year, I think, taking a class from Feuerhahn on the ecumenical movement. I remember him saying something like, "We believe in synergism as Lutheran, just not in justification. In sanctification, however, of course we cooperate with God."<br /><br />This was so significant because it was so different than the sense that I and I think many of my classmates had regarding sanctification, and it set me on a path of re-evaluation of my theological view.<br /><br />If only I had heard these words of Dr. Feuerhahn in my first year systematics classes rather than the words of Dr. Forde . . .Reverend Christopher Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245442259795019592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-46189822064460400982013-12-03T07:03:11.602-08:002013-12-03T07:03:11.602-08:00As I continue to look into this subject, I find th...As I continue to look into this subject, I find that your assessment seems to be accurate. There is a real need to reacquaint the Lutheran Church with the manner in which Luther, Chemnitz and the other Lutheran fathers actually spoke about this topic.Surburg's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07471674105191295804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-31393336352787331282013-11-30T19:16:41.481-08:002013-11-30T19:16:41.481-08:00Sorry to be late to the party, Mark, but what we h...Sorry to be late to the party, Mark, but what we have here is a fundamental disagreement on the Law.<br /><br />One party, that of Orthodox Lutheranism, subscribes to the biblical, confessional view of the Law as God's eternal will.<br /><br />The other party, represented chiefly by 19th and 20th century European, post-Enlightenment Lutheranism, sees the law in negative terms: it is a negative experience for the believer.<br /><br />The Word is an "event," as Forde said, not the propositional content of Scripture. Hang on to this while denying biblical inerrancy, the vicarious satisfaction of Christ, eternal law, natural law, and the law's third use, and there you go.<br /><br />It is the experience theology of Erlangen, part two. Missouri won't survive if this isn't addressed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-73108257025822879052013-05-10T17:58:43.764-07:002013-05-10T17:58:43.764-07:00Pastor Surburg,
I share your views, and for a lon...Pastor Surburg,<br /><br />I share your views, and for a long time I have had difficulty with these statements by C.F.W. Walther in <em>God's No and God's Yes</em> (CPH 1973):<br /><br />"The believer need not at all be exhorted to do good works; his faith does them automatically." (Thesis X, elaboration)<br /><br />"Since the Fall the Law has but a single function, viz., to lead men to the knowledge of their sins." (Thesis XI, elaboration)<br /><br />I would be interested in your perspective on those statements. Carl Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01861480251175173373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-58274196784792799362013-05-05T14:18:02.125-07:002013-05-05T14:18:02.125-07:00Nathan, I had seen it in one of your posts elsewhe...Nathan, I had seen it in one of your posts elsewhere. Thank you for your continued thoughtful engagement with this important subject!Surburg's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07471674105191295804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-42986714448518891962013-05-03T07:52:28.615-07:002013-05-03T07:52:28.615-07:00Pastor Surburg,
Wanted you to see this, if you ha...Pastor Surburg,<br /><br />Wanted you to see this, if you haven't already: http://infanttheology.wordpress.com/2013/05/03/the-two-kinds-of-righteousness-what-does-this-mean-part-iii-of-iii/<br /><br />+Nathan Nathan Rinnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13994922104672096902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-12679829050388031182013-04-27T11:09:30.694-07:002013-04-27T11:09:30.694-07:00Thank you for writing this. Both my pastor and I e...Thank you for writing this. Both my pastor and I enjoyed it and had a great conversation over it :)<br /><br />Tamara BlickhanGrace Aboundshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677095880152362977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-85678654593977581482013-04-25T09:36:19.956-07:002013-04-25T09:36:19.956-07:00Nathan,
As I posted on your blog, thanks for your...Nathan,<br /><br />As I posted on your blog, thanks for your work with this issue and the great reference. I will look forward to reading it!<br /><br />In Christ,<br /><br />MarkSurburg's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07471674105191295804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-35843061004134041492013-04-25T09:25:25.736-07:002013-04-25T09:25:25.736-07:00Guillaume,
I would agree with you because you are...Guillaume,<br /><br />I would agree with you because you are right - that is exactly what the section goes on to say. Admittedly, the heading was chosen to be rhetorically striking in a discussion that often treats the Law as if it is solely a negative thing.<br /><br />In Christ,<br /><br />MarkSurburg's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07471674105191295804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-9100936475816714902013-04-25T09:12:47.479-07:002013-04-25T09:12:47.479-07:00I find this headline: "E. Third use of the La...I find this headline: "E. Third use of the Law – the Law does help Christians to live according to God’s will" perhaps unhelpful but I agree with what you say that follows in explaining it. I think stating it in a more negative sense like--the Law suppresses the Old Man in the Christian so the New Man may live out the law--or something like that. Just an opinion.Guillaumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16648223903405231564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-36557985971421495742013-04-25T08:58:41.724-07:002013-04-25T08:58:41.724-07:00Mark,
I'm guessing you have already seen my l...Mark,<br /><br />I'm guessing you have already seen my link to this on Pastor Messer's blog, but here is the latest gift from Pastor Holger Sonntag:<br /><br />http://infanttheology.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/silent-no-more-luther-lays-down-the-law-on-how-to-preach-the-law-200-proof-version/<br /><br />+NathanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-75695831203702623012013-04-24T10:22:47.621-07:002013-04-24T10:22:47.621-07:00I've been involved in these conversations for ...I've been involved in these conversations for quite a long time and it never ceases to amaze me how eagerly and earnestly some try to find a way around the clear teaching of Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions on these issues, making so many excuses for avoiding the obvious truths you have stated so well here, Mark.<br /><br />Your comments are absolutely spot on.Rev. Paul T. McCainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04846468267196335350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-32065489945841248142013-04-24T06:00:28.970-07:002013-04-24T06:00:28.970-07:00Mark,
Well done. A true service to the church!
...Mark,<br /><br />Well done. A true service to the church!<br /><br />+Nathan Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-25489870087562313302013-04-23T17:50:07.469-07:002013-04-23T17:50:07.469-07:00Pastor Brown,
How come I'm not hearing the sa...Pastor Brown,<br /><br />How come I'm not hearing the same thing you are hearing?!? It seems to me that many people are hearing what they want to hear. I understand it's your perception but in this case I do not see it as reality. Everything I'm reading is all about Christ working in and through the life of of the Christian in light of the Gospel. Waynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05115279411952417222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447271489594435093.post-54418923308882858492013-04-23T14:39:21.684-07:002013-04-23T14:39:21.684-07:00Mark,
You write, "Second, these are not sta...Mark, <br /><br />You write, "Second, these are not statements that lead to despair because they are spoken to Christians whose daily life is focused on Christ and the ways that he is present for us with forgiveness through his Means of Grace. When there is failure and sin, we return to the Word, to Holy Baptism, to Holy Absolution and to the Sacrament of the Altar. Christ and the Means of Grace are what make growth and increase possible and they provide forgiveness when we fail."<br /><br />If that is the situation, then I am in agreement. However, and this is just my own observation - I hear more often clamoring (and use of a perjorative word there intentionally) not in the context of being focused upon Christ, but in the context of "you aren't doing what I like - here's what you need to be." <br /><br />What is the old saying? The Gospel assumed is the Gospel denied.Rev. Eric J Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.com